A trench knife is a combat knife designed to kill or incapacitate an enemy at close quarters, such as in a trench or other confined area. They are made of a single- or double-edged blade that could be used as a short sword. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/rifle/3/1288253580.jpg. Another thing that might have been a factor is that a slim blade would make a smaller wound, which would be more likely to have that suction effect, trapping the blade whereas a triangular design might have avoided this. It turns out that they were not and were still used by multiple countries not only during World War I, but as well as during parts of World War II. or Best Offer. NOTE: this is pure speculation on my part. I can't remember the source, but I think the pig sticker style of bayonet was made to make it easier to punch through the heavy wool coats, uniforms, and whatever webbing got in the way. It must be easier to make than a proper knife/bayonet and I imagine that the triangular shape must be a simple and cheap way to strong poky thing -- the triangular shapes, often with ridges, would be less prone to breaking than a flat blade. That being said, this is only and suspicion, I am on the look out for actual historical support of this. blunderbuss2, 8 years ago That eliminates muzzle-loaders & guns up to about 1890. I believe that was after WWI. And having stopped using this style, what convinced the British Commonwealth to use pig stickers on their Enfields during WWII? The Geneva Convention did ban triangular bayonets, knives etc.. After searching, I am pretty sure the Geneva Convention ban is not true. Reading Time: 5 minutes Even for a legal expert trained in understanding weapon laws, Wisconsin knife laws are often difficult to understand. It has a socket and a ring where it is attached to a rifle. Example of a plug bayonet showing the end of a knife inserted into the muzzle of a musket. The "Bayonet History" page of Armoury Online agrees that "the most serious wounds can be inflicted with a thrusting stroke using a slim, rigid blade - a form which is embodied by the triangular and cruciform bladed socket bayonet.". Bayonets from Selected Countries of the World updated March 4, 2008: Help us keep this Identification Service alive. Is the use of bayonets addressed by any international agreements? Price: $52.95. Triangle bayonets are not explicitly mentioned in the Convention. The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. Proceeds and commissions from these sales - in part - go towards the purchase of additional reference materials and acquisition expenses. Triangular Bayonets - banned, disliked or what? $395.00. What is the dia. That's kind of what I thought, that it was for strength. Nearly all of the bayonets were believed scrapped, making period examples like this one quite rare today. The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. Straight Dope has a decent discussion of the triangular bayonet but no real documented facts. Enfield Bayonet. US Civil War German Made Bayonet Short Sword w/ … The reasoning behind this was due to the ease of maintenance for the soldier on the battlefield. Jerry Miculek - Pro Shooter 1,051,152 views I sold my M1 Garand and bayonet to a California buyer, but my dealer refused to ship the bayonet. I'd heard that the bayonet made a triangular hole (shocker) and that the resulting wound was particularly hard to close and patch up. It's "illegal" on a battlefield, but not in your house. The Portal for Public History Some have a permanently mounted "illegal" triangular bayonet, which leaves a sucking wound that will not close. The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. A musketball wound would have done far, far more damage than the single thrust of a bayonet. On April 24, 1863, President Lincoln issued the finished code as Instructions for the Government of Armies of the United States in the Field, General Order No. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. (76 mm.) Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. While I had thought that Triangular Bayonets had been outlawed during the first Hague Convention. The triangular shape is therefore a result of manufacturing for strength, not necessarily to create the unique shape of the wound it would cause. It shouldn’t really suprise anyone that an infantryman wanted to limit the horrible ways he could have died. 75,280 bayonets were believed produced during 1943–1944. Alessan March 21, 2010, 1:24pm #26 Wikipedia: Bayonet #Early History Enfield Bayonet. There are only very few mentions of bayonet wounds in medical journals and none mention a triangular blade. I should note that I am speaking based on sources from the American Revolutionary War. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. Patterned after the French M1777 Charleville musket and designated the “New Prussian Musket,” these were made into the 1830s at the Prussian state arsenals. A Union bayonet from the Civil War era will usually have the word "U.S.” on its underside, and might have a serial number engraved in the same location. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. Makes death a rapid certainty. Table of Contents. Most things that I have read through my Google search supports these ideas. Alright, I've dug up something on the reasoning behind triangular bayonets. He was a reenactor who had been stuck when a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the poor fellow's bicep. Under legislation sponsored by Representative William Hughes in 1990, any gun which could accept a bayonet could be considered an illegal "assault weapon." Many Civil War bayonets (though not all) were socket-style, meaning they had a hole that slipped over the muzzle of the gun and locked into place. I just like knowing what the laws are in case i get pulled over and the po-po gets all cartman on me. The screwdriver point, mentioned in this thread, was developed to easier penetrate bone than a sharp point. It is illegal to own the following types of knives in California: Cane knives, lipstick knives, belt knives and any other knife that can be classified as misleading is illegal … The unfullered triangular blade and longer 3.00 in. This looks like for an earlier gun, maybe muzzle loader. KarlGauss March 19, 2010, 3:53pm These sources agree that it is not the triangular shape in itself causing profuse bleeding, rather it is the thrust of a strong bayonet in itself that does the damage. If you have one you're good to go. California is an open-carry state. I had the unique privilege of meeting and interviewing a man who had actually been stabbed with one, straight through the arm. Just curious really, im buying the thing regardless. $275.00. According to The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Warfare, "bayonets with long triangular cross-sections were stronger in the charge and thrust than single or double bladed weapons" (Page 414). Lots of threads mention that the profuse bleeding was just an added bonus. A socket bayonet, on the other hand, has a triangular blade in cross-section. I'd recommend against using a bayonet afield. socket distinguishes the M1809 from the later M1839 bayonet. Bayonets aren't illegal anywhere in the US. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. Triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more. Sku:AH-3551. Why stop? Country Pages —start here if you think you know the country of origin. The bleeding had been profuse, but not preposterously so. Untrue, I'm afraid. Legal Notice - International Military Antiques, Inc observes all Federal, State and local laws. The bayonet transformed the musket from a medium to long range weapon into one effective at close range as well. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. Sword bayonets were popularly attached to “Baker Rifles.” Press J to jump to the feed. Ending Thursday at 6:05PM PST 3d 14h. 0 bids. I suspect that ease of production plays a huge part in this. What is the truth about bayonets? Bayonet History Timeline —read about key milestones in the bayonet's history, from the 1500s to the present day.. Bayonet Terminology —diagrams showing the basic terminology used to describe bayonets, scabbards, and frogs.. Glossary of Bayonet Terms— definitions of common bayonet terms. There was no longer a need for pikemen to defend musketeers in battle because one soldier could defend himself against an enemy less than 100 yards away. For further info check out my book "Guide to Bayonets of the World" at http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. of the hole? Visit our Shopping Site pages and buy from us direct or visit our Books for Sale pages and buy research materials from one of our affiliates. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. The primary reason for the confusion stems from the ambiguous wording of statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside civil and criminal courts. Or in their pawn shop. its seems that even if you buy the thing at a store, and put it on the seat next to you in the car its illegal. Get the best deals on Bayonet when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. I've, like you, heard many times that triangle bayonets are illegal, however I don't recall seeing anything that specifically bans them. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. If three was enough to cause excessive bleeding six would have, by that logic, been bordering on criminal. It's one of the reasons why the bayonets on the Brown Bess were so nasty and Colonial Army soldiers were reluctant to stand against a bayonet charge. Price: $52.95. U.S.M1855 TRIANGULAR BAYONET & SCABBARD CIVIL WAR. Rather than listing, the knives are that legal to own, it may be easier to list the knives that bear restrictions. Triangular Bayonets Actually, they could be ruled as illegal, but there is no direct ban by International law about triangular bayonets. u.s.m1855 triangular bayonet & scabbard civil war type 1 with 2nd variation leather scabbard bayonet blade is 18" still has some brightness has never been sharpened ,3" socket,fits m1861 & m1863 us muskets leather scabbard has "b" stamped in leather inspector mark,good shape no rips see pics They just didn’t opt for the obvious choice. or Best Offer. The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. Non-automatics are exempt from this law. The thing that I am missing is any actual documentation on this. Triangular Bayonets “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. $16.80 shipping. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. The most reasonable theory I've heard is that the triangular pattern of bayonets were the result of the forging process. If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. He told me that bayonets are not legal in California, to which I replied I thought only permanently-affixed bayonets (such as on the Yugo SKS) were illegal. The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of comparative size. A triangular bayonet causes no more injury than an equally sized bullet wound Triangular bayonets are legal, just don't mount them on a rifle. “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. The idea seems to go hand-in-hand with a myth that the Geneva or Hague conventions banned the use of triangular bayonets (already discussed elsewhere on this talk page), so I expect it is itself a myth. The majority of bayonets used during the 1860's were for use in the Civil War, though a few hunting bayonets can still be found. By the way, as far as names for female sports teams in Bayonne, NJ, the public school’s name is the Bees, the parochial school’s the Lady Knights. Sku:AH-3551. $30.00 shipping. A bayonet (from French baïonnette) is a knife, dagger, sword, or spike-shaped weapon designed to fit on the end of the muzzle of a rifle, musket or similar firearm, allowing it to be used as a spear. Having written the book on it I feel quite comfortable taking your word on it. The triangular shape often meant the innards are held by the bayonet when you twist so when extracted, out comes the bayonet, dragging some of the innards as well. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of this. On the other hand, a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in markings. The bayonet was primarily used during cavalry charges and in close range combat. The weight, shape and attachment of bayonets have changed throughout history in order to increase the effectiveness of the musket and the bayonet. Barrett M107 .50 cal Sniper full review, shooting, ammo testing, and explosives with Jerry Miculek - Duration: 1:15:40. A socket bayonet, complete with retaining band for added security. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of … From the rules in the Hague Convention it'd depend on whether or not they are designed to cause unnecessary suffering or not, and then what is … The fellow I met who took one in the arm had a very peculiar triangular shaped wound, but it did not bleed any more than you would think, and the flaps off skin were sliced in such a way that the doctor could simply stitch them together again. BTW here is the law on Chinese SKS- that started a lot of this My Mosin-Nagant has a square bayonet, and I was told by the guy I bought it from that it was A) because that was easy to produce en masse and B) because wounds from it were harder to close. Ease of production, maybe? Samovar88, 8 years ago The inside diameter is pretty small, about 5/8 inch. If, indeed, they had been particularly disliked or invented for the purpose of creating bleeding or pain, it is likely that American propaganda would have picked up on the Hessians' use of six sided bayonets! Civil War Enfield Type Bayonet . Bayonets are obviously of no sporting utility, although they could be marginally useful in the personal and civil defense contexts. Identify the shape and size of Civil War-era bayonets. Certain states have "assault weapon"(sic) bans in place that do not allow the combination of certain features of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. Why use triangular blades? The scar was unmistakable. Since the wound inflicted by triangular bayonets is difficult to repair, and causes more initial bleeding than that of a two sided bayonet, one could classify triangular bayonets under a clause which prohibits weapons causing undue suffering after the conflict has ended. Everything for sale on ima-usa.com is completely legal to own, trade, transport and … Sword and knife bayonets were used in later centuries. The triangular shape was simply easier to create, not a particularly cruel innovation. Yet the sources are largely silent on this, and there is no evidence that these bayonets were regarded as particularly cruel. warof 1812, medicalcare, weapons, historicrowing crew. From the 17th century to World War I, it was considered a primary weapon for infantry attacks.Today, it is considered an ancillary weapon or a weapon of last resort. These bayonets would have to have been used to take down horses. Made by N.J. Edmunds (S356) (20k) and Grundy Ltd. (S41) (56k). Bayonets of any type are against the law in many states, such as Cali or Michigan. Bayonet that was used during the American Revolutionary War the single thrust of a single- or double-edged blade that be! Behind this was due to the ease of maintenance for the confusion from... 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